Our student Sára Jaštíková from the Institute of Special Education Studies is another laureate of this year's Mozaika poznání award. She won the award for her bachelor's thesis, in which she studied adults with ADHD and their experiences of schooling. Read the interview that Sara prepared with one of the respondents, Alena Spálenská. How did Alena find out about her diagnosis? And how did ADHD affect her in and out of school?
Could you first tell us when and how you found out you had ADHD?
I was 22 years old, and I found out accidentally from the internet when I was watching TikTok, and its algorithm started throwing ADHD-related content at me and all these experiences were familiar to me. A lot of things that I've struggled with my whole life finally got a name. So, I got more interested in it, and somehow, I've seen a psychiatrist who even confirmed it.
So, no one at school or home ever suspected anything before?
Well, not at all, actually. It's never come up before, and I've never had any suspicions before, or... Nobody ever told me.
Looking back to your childhood, do you remember what it was like for you during your school days?
Looking back to your childhood, do you remember what it was like for you during your school days? I was a boisterous child. I remember that from the first grade, I had a problem with carrying school supplies, none of my notebooks ever had a cover, and I learned to draw things not with a ruler but with a Lítačka card (for public transport) because I never had any school supplies and I collected all kinds of notes sent home since I was little. So, the notes were mainly for disturbing the class because I couldn't sit still and it also mixed with the fact that I was way ahead in school, so I was kind of naturally bored. In elementary school, they sort of segregated me. They always put me somewhere far away from the others so I wouldn't be a distraction. Once, they even made a special desk for me where I was so far away from my classmates that I couldn't see the blackboard much. I've also gotten a lot of flak for not working, or for being smart enough to bring my school supplies, for not being a distraction and whatnot.
Is that what you heard from the teachers?
Yeah yeah, we had this old teacher, raised under communism, who I don't think even knew that there was such a thing as ADHD, and she didn't tolerate my behaviour very much. I know that one time she even gave me a lecture in front of all my classmates about how I was just so weird and why I couldn't be different and normal. I always felt a lot like it was all my fault. That there's something wrong with me. I have never been offered any help. Some of my classmates with special needs had assistants and I never had anything like that because I was "smart" and there was no reason to help me. I managed the curriculum, but I had a big problem with carrying school supplies, doing any homework, and I had a terrible mess in my belongings. I always had my pencil case spread all over the desk, stuff everywhere, and I was very disorganized. And no one ever really wondered if I needed help with it.
I can understand that must have been difficult for you, but if I get it right, your school performance was not impaired because of ADHD, was it?
Not in the first five years, but I went to high school after 5th grade, so there was a big jump in difficulty. By 5th grade, I was getting straight A's, but I had all kinds of reprimands, and a notebook full of notes sent home, but it was still bearable. Then in high school, my grades dropped pretty fast, I was in 6th grade, and I got about six Cs right away. I guess I didn't even want good grades. I didn't really know what good they would do me. It took me a lot of work to pay attention to subjects that didn't interest me, and usually, my mind drifted somewhere else anyway. And I was not motivated to put that effort into something I never wanted to do. So, I've always had C's, and B's, but in the subjects I enjoyed or was interested in, I had A's. I also got worse and worse demerits, and I worked my way up to a C for behaviour.
That C for behaviour was because of the notes sent home you piled up for forgetting things and such?
Basically, yeah, but I had a bit of a problem with other classmates. I also had sanctions for bullying because I never really fit in and somehow, I learned that if you're the first aggressor, then they leave you alone. It was accumulated through late arrivals, and then also through being very insolent. I've naturally developed a certain disdain for authority. They all just scolded me for what I was doing wrong, and I didn't sense any sincere interest from them to help me with these things, so I didn't see much reason to respect and listen to them. So, it was basically rude behaviour, not carrying tools, interrupting, bullying and things like that.
Could you find something in which your disorder was beneficial to you in school?
I never really fit into the established rules and system, so I was always looking for my own solutions, which allowed me to learn to be quite creative, to figure things out on my own and to be skilful in dealing with unexpected situations. I learned to compensate for my attention problems by starting to draw in class. I discovered that if I drew during class, boredom and lack of interest didn't physically kill me so much and I could just sit and listen, which was required of me. So over time, I started taking canvases and paints to school, and most of the teachers were okay with it because they were probably happy that I was doing something and keeping quiet. In some ways, it was an advantage that I got used to not having that validation that I was a good student. I never had it, and that allowed me to focus more on what I was interested in even in the time that wasn't meant for it. I was also used to approaching things in my own way and being creative. For example, one year we did a herbarium and I didn't have all the plants perfectly named, but I had a visually nice herbarium, so I got an A, even though it wasn't actually that correct because I approached it in my own way and used the things I'm good at.
And then in terms of preparing for school at home, did you learn any techniques that would help you? Unless you had attention problems at home as well.
Not really, I didn't really care much for it in high school in general. Even by not knowing what was going on, I didn't know how to think about it. So, I had the typical problems like having trouble getting motivated and getting started on anything in a timely manner; and then that motivation only came when the thing was really close to a deadline, and I had no choice but to start doing it. It helped me a little bit to write nice notes in a nice pen in a nice notebook about the lessons because suddenly it was more about the visual side of it, which I found fun and interesting, and paying attention to the lesson was such a nice by-product. But I couldn't do that with a lot of subjects, like math, because the notebook is more of a workbook, and you can't decorate it much.
Yeah, I understand. Has anyone adapted the lessons to your needs? Did it occur to any of the teachers that you actually function differently?
Well, I don't remember; I don't think I remember at all. It was nice when my classmates encouraged me to draw and paint, and when I generally felt some interest from the teachers in developing my natural talents, even if it didn't fit 100% into their curriculum. And typically, when teachers tolerated my drawing during class.
Alena Spálenská graduated in psychology and journalism at Charles University, where she is currently pursuing a master's degree in psychology at the Faculty of Arts. At the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) she works on the project Effective support for people with personality disorders in the Czech Republic (Gradient), where she plays two roles. As a specialist, she works on research and implementation of DBT (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy). She is also responsible for the communication and PR activities of the project. Outside of the NIMH, she engages in awareness-raising activities and founded the project named Můj ADHD mozek (My ADHD Brain), where she spreads awareness about ADHD and organizes educational and community events focused on the topic of neurodiversity. She has also completed a comprehensive crisis intervention course and training in holistic coaching. Her coaching practice focuses on clients with ADHD. In the past, she also worked as a journalist and her articles can still be seen in the non-profit magazine Nový prostor.
For example, could you pick one or a few things where ADHD caused you the most difficulty?
Well, definitely being on time. It also has to do with the fact that people with ADHD tend to have a shifted chronotype towards the evening. Our most productive and active hours tend to be in the evening, and it can be quite difficult to fall asleep in time to make it to school at 8 am. Now my life is a little more flexible and I rarely get up before 9. And it doesn't even make sense to me because my brain just isn't timed that way, and I would be depriving myself of my naturally most productive hours. Then I had a problem with organization - tools, workbooks, assignments, time... Of course, keeping my attention in class was a problem. I've completely gotten over the expectation of learning new information in class. I ended up having to learn most things on my own at home, where I first encountered them. It was always exhausting to sit and listen, so I was exhausted from the classes, but at the same time, I didn't take much away from them and then had a hard time catching up at home.
Do you feel like the symptoms you had back then have subsided with age, or is it still the same?
I definitely think it's subsiding for me. I can't distinguish anymore what it is that my brain has grown up on its own and what it is that I've had a lot of different compensatory techniques. And a lot of people have similar experiences. It's probably a combination of the fact that some people's brains are still developing, some people develop some brain centres and replace the ones that work less well, and some people develop compensatory aids that make things easier for them. That's probably confirmed by some studies that indicate that half of the people don't show enough symptoms afterwards to meet the diagnosis in adulthood.
It was nice when my classmates encouraged me to draw and paint and when I generally felt some interest from the teachers in developing my natural talents, even if it didn't fit 100% into their curriculum.
And going back to the way you talked about your classmates. Do you think you had problems in your peer group because of ADHD, too, or what was it?
Yeah, I think for sure. I think that ADHD also makes social life exceedingly difficult for people when they're young because we perceive things a little bit differently, and we think differently. So sometimes we just don't meet at all in what we would like to do, how we would like to spend our time and what we would like to do to have fun. We have different needs even in terms of, like, friendship. For example, when I was young, I didn't understand that friendship had any other purpose than just to do silly things and have fun, and then I didn't get along with people who didn't. I also think we can be a bit of a nuisance to those other people for perfectly understandable reasons. I mean, maybe we interrupt or jump in people's conversations, and we're just kind of too intense. So that and also some inattention to particular social cues because it's logically a little harder to perceive them with attention deficit disorder.
Now, if you could advise teachers about how to treat children with ADHD to benefit them and help them discover the path to themselves, what kind of advice would that be?
I think it would be very good to give kids with ADHD the message that it's not their fault and it's not because they're bad people or they're doing it on purpose. It's awfully easy to internalize it as some kind of personal failing. People with ADHD often have crippled self-esteem because it can be harder for them to experience success in a system that is tailored to someone else's needs. So, let's help children with ADHD develop a little more in what they are naturally good at. We focus an awful lot on making up for some deficiency in, say, math, and we focus all our energy on the things that don't work. Then there's no room for the things that work, and you really need to experience some success of your own, otherwise, you won't have the confidence and motivation.
And that's something that maybe you would have needed from the teachers back then? Is that a good way to put it?
Yeah, I think it definitely is. I have my school experience framed very negatively, including the results. And while I'm a smart person, there weren't a lot of moments where I could experience that. An exceptionally good teacher was our class teacher in high school. I remember that she had a positive attitude towards the fact that I was drawing and such. I used to do these big mandalas in class and then at one point she did a display of the mandalas in the classroom, and that was awesome. She's also the teacher that I then handed in the slightly bad but nice herbarium, and she gave me that A for that because she was able to be flexible about handing in what was more in keeping with who you are. So, for me, some of that encouragement and developing natural talents is definitely important, especially if one doesn't sort of conform perfectly to the prescribed curriculum and standards.
Who is Sára Jaštíková?
Sára Jaštíková graduated with a bachelor’s degree in special education - Early Childhood, where she discovered her interest in Ethnopedy, especially in specific and non-specific behavioural disorders. In her bachelor thesis, she focused on ADHD in terms of understanding individuals with this diagnosis in the school environment. She continues to be interested in this syndrome and expands her knowledge by reading the literature as well as interviewing individuals with ADHD, which is also the basis for the articles for this website. Currently, she is a 2nd year student of a master’s degree in special education - Counselling, but in the future, she would like to focus on psychotherapy of children with problematic behaviour.